KEN WILBER, interviewed by Raquel Torrent in February 2021

This wonderful interview that dear Ken has granted me/us lasted almost 4 hours among the recorded time and the off the record moments where we that are friends since before the first visit I made him in 2005 had some personal things to talk.  

I want to recognize his generosity and the fact that I'm very content that we still have this iconic man among us even though his degenerative disease has avoid that he has a more active life and yet thanks to the online life, we have hundreds and thousands of recorded interviews and conferences that have asked him to talk his opinions and Integral views of the world !!!

I am proud that this is another piece of history that remember us that we have been able to listen to a real great genious of our times. 

I hope you enjoy listening to his wisdom althoug the recommendation is that you hear two questions a day as there are 20 !!!

Thank you Ken !!!

ESTA ENTREVISTA SERÁ TRANSCRITA EN INGLÉS Y TRADUCIDA AL ESPAÑOL 

RELACIONES INTEGRALES Y EL AMOR UNIVERSAL

Conocí  a Martin Ucik en el "Integrales Forum" de Berlín hace 15 años o más, incluso antes de que terminara de escribir su primer libro sobre "Relaciones Integrales". He realizado otros talleres con él, y en cambio hoy, 5 de Febrero 2021, he tenido un INSIGHT en su Formación de 26 semanas sobre el mismo tema, que comienza enseñando y practicando los diversos niveles de conciencia con su nomenclatura de colores.

Quizá las personas que estamos en el nivel Turquesa de Conciencia, de acuerdo a la Teoría Integral de Ken Wilber, estamos solas en su gran mayoría (es decir, no emparejadas), porque, primero, la oportunidad de encontrar una persona afín en este nivel,  se reduce considerablemente,  ya que el propio Wilber explica,  que a mayor altitud (centro de gravedad en niveles de segundo o tercer grado), menor amplitud.  Y segundo, y aquí viene la explicación del Insight;  porque quizá lo que ocurre es que la experiencia relacional ya no se enfoca en un solo individuo para tener la sensación y vivencia de una relación significativa y plena, sino en un colectivo relacional, con el cual compartir vivencias, sensaciones, ideas, vibraciones y por supuesto planes y acciones de futuro, lo cual no quita para mantener una relación con otra persona integral, si se encuentra. La visión aquí es que ya no es lo más importante, pues la mirada se amplía.

Hoy más que nunca la necesidad de cambio se palpa en el ambiente, y la transformación hacia nuevos modelos de relación interpersonal, con las ciudades, los animales y la Naturaleza es absolutamente vital, y ha tenido que aparecer una PANdemia para hacernos ver la importancia de crear comunidades de acción en los diferentes ámbitos de la existencia, dándonos cuenta REAL de aquello de que "todos somos uno", y de que "la unión hace la fuerza".  Sólo conseguiremos salir de esta, si estamos unidos, experimentando así novedosos modelos relacionales. 

Esta realidad, por lo menos sentida por mi hoy, como una toma de conciencia espontánea -coming from above, como se diría en inglés (que viene de arriba), o en su expresión descendente,  como diría Assaglioli- tiene dos vertientes bien interesantes.  La primera proviene,  del hecho en sí, de que el nivel de conciencia turquesa es "colectivo" (pues a lo largo de todo el desarrollo de la Conciencia por niveles, como plantean muchos de los psicólogos y filósofos evolutivos: Loevinger, Cook Greuter, Gebser, Clare Graves, y entre ellos, el propio Wilber), el crecimiento va de lo individual a lo colectivo y de lo colectivo a lo individual, como si el proceso evolutivo hiciera un maravilloso baile integrativo para asegurarse de que aquello que no aprendimos en el nivel anterior, mirando hacia dentro;  podamos aprenderlo/integrarlo, mirando hacia afuera en el siguiente nivel, y por ello …en relación con los demás. 

Al ser este nivel turquesa, de segundo grado y colectivo; la experiencia relacional con la colectividad es transpersonal.  El amor no necesita individualizarse en un solo ser, sino engrandecerse, repartirse, y recibir de la mayor cantidad de perspectivas posibles;  integrando cada relación,  en un continuo flujo que vacía y plenifica a la vez. Así, la experiencia del propio Ser se profundiza y eleva al mismo tiempo, ofreciendo esa PAZ del "todo está bien, como está", por la vivencia de que mi pareja es… el mundo… cada persona que forma la colectividad !!!

En mi visión de hoy, he percibido que la sexualidad en este nivel, se convierte en una orgía energética sublimada, en la que el cuerpo es el espectador, en un "acto amoroso" invertido -pues en el "hacer el amor" habitual,  el cuerpo es el actor y los planos menos visibles  -emocional, mental, energético y espiritual-, meros  espectadores, que, a veces, pueden ser llamados al escenario. 

Desde el nivel turquesa, la verdadera aventura de la Sexualidad Tántrica, ni siquiera necesita de la intervención genital, de piel,  hormona o músculo; sino que se convierte en la capacidad abarcativa de la totalidad. Podríamos llamarla:  Metasexualidad;  una aceptación amorosa de todos los géneros, roles, identidades y orientaciones sexo-afectivas, incluso más allá de las palabras.  Puro abrazo energético. Puro amor.

Raquel Torrent

Psicóloga Colegiada

Terapeuta Integral, Coach y Activista de la Conciencia.

www.innerpositioning.com

REGENERATIVE AMERICA !!!

May be because I have an American son and two grandsons, living in Louisiana and Texas all their lives, that the tears were running down my cheek half an hour ago when listening to Joe Biden's  first speech as president-elect of the United States.

I felt the same wave of hope and soul resonance that I felt when being a teenager and herd President Kennedy giving his first speech. I shed then and today tears of relief, affective closeness, coherent inner experience and feelings of energetic truth. Tears to accompany the wisdom and positive discourse toward unity desire and improved future for the children of the world.  

We cannot deny that the United States have been "the model" of Democracy for the whole world since 1789 when George Washington was elected President and leaving his mandate in 1797 went back to his civil life assuring a peaceful transition to the next President, John Adams that was federalist and not republican like him (peaceful transition that we have not seen in this unfortunate leaving mandate).

This US modeling has come from what Joe Biden has empowered in his speech today  -even citing Abraham Lincoln- the goodness, truth and beauty of the deep significance of many paragraphs of the US Declaration of Independence, above all the second, that has been used as the most clear example for Human Rights principles:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Even though I'm integralist,  knowing that the development of consciousness trespasses diverse levels of growth including & trascending^(*)   the previous one; accordingly,  recognizing that an infant's consciousness is not equal to a highly developed wise adult, I do know as well the truth that lies in that declaration of equal rights for all human beings, because it's true that nobody can be set aside for his race, religion, social status, culture or gender which are the basic identities in anyone's life. In that basic stand we are all equal and must be treated therefore equally !!!

(*) Ken Wilber's Integral Theory

We probably understand and agree with that type of equality when coming to Liberty and Life. The problem comes when defining the third right:  "the pursuit of Happiness".  What Mr. Trump presented as happiness, doesn't seem to be the same take about it as the democrats  have.  Therefore, we have a problem,  as Humanity,… and now Joe Biden,  as President with his citizens, as what it's happiness for some is unhappiness for others.  It's our human condition that may only be transcended with a high consciousness level, a "permanent" state of wisdom!!!

So far, Joe Biden has been the perfect example of a wise man -not only by his ample experience in overcoming great turmoil and pain in his own life, but because of his behavior during and after the campaign for the Presidency.   I'm sure that he's going to perform a historical mandate, as historical has been the celebration of his sacred vow today.

During his inauguration speech, he's shown a poise with naturalness at the same time, a firm conviction without an atom of pretentiousness or arrogance:  He's a man that has won his own personal battle many times and has nothing to lose, at his 78 years of age. That's why he said that he is not going to govern for individual interests but for the benefit of all !!!

Calmness, consistency, kindness, dignity and generosity (in his recognition of former presidents, congress partners and the actual reality of a woman for the first time in the Vice-Presidency) have enhance his best personal asset: his authenticity.  You may like him or not, but you could never say he's phony or fake.

"We must restore the soul of America", Biden has said; and yet another time he referred to the "soul" and to "better angels" in his discourse, may be as a way to remark that it's about time that after so many elections since G. Washington, it's only the second time in the history of the US that a catholic man goes up so far, arriving to the top of the ladder at the 46th mandate.  J.F. Kennedy was murdered, probably,  because the people was not yet ready for the universal values of such a religious doctrine.  On the contrary, now,  such values are more than ever needed to generate and propel deep changes and transformations that the country are so desperately demanding, above all after seeing the great divide among its people that is more than political.

May be this four years of disruption, of a man like Trump in the Presidency of one of the most powerful nations in the world, and the clear fact that the chasm of the civil war is not yet healed, has some kind of spiritual meaning, if we look at it from a higher perspective.  Something cannot be cured, if the wound is not seen and treated with proper care, and I don't know a "better" way to care than love, and that sounds very catholic to me. 

It seems that Biden is that man who can start the healing, not only for all his personal qualities, skills and vast experience but because he has surrounded himself  by the most diverse  president's cabinet which for the first time in its history will have gender parity, different races and an Afro-American leading the Dept. of Defense.  Transformation it's not going to be easy, it's not going to be quick.  Biden and his cabinet need great doses of CREATIVITY to generate a new story that would successfully  address the many open fronts that are at stake, in order to suit the greatest quantity of  his fellow citizens. Something that he  probably won't even get to see.  Nevertheless and without a doubt he will make history on his own, but definitively  Trump/Biden will be the best couple in the Modern History of political shake.

The changes President Biden has started to do,  like the battle against Covid,  show that he's willing to cure first some inner wounds, but also the outer as he has signed for returning to the Paris agreement to fight Climate Change and has stop the wall with México, stating also in his speech that he's going to recover good relationships with the allies, what it may relieve the tension created in External Politics.

I very well know that many think differently and I'm sure that for their own honourable reasons what it makes me pray for unity, agreeing with Joe Biden when  in a line at the inaugural speech of today he was calling for acceptance, calmness, tolerance and will of listening to others -even though they may be different- in order to get the best of all perspectives.  

 

Raquel Torrent

Psychologist, Integral Therapist, Personal and Transpersonal Teacher,  Ontological Coach and Consciousness activist.